I agree to Idea Raise the Minimum Wage
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I disagree to Idea Raise the Minimum Wage

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Raise the Minimum Wage

The minimum wage should be raised to $12 and then tied to inflation and cost of living indexes.

Submitted by Jon 10 months ago

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Comments (44)

  1. Pinned Moderator

    Mike Moffatt has a comprehensive piece on the minimum wage at Canadian Business: http://www.canadianbusiness.com/blogs-and-comment/minimum-wage-proposal/

    9 months ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  2. Adjust minimum wage regulations in order to reflect inflation and the Consumer Price Index.

    10 months ago
    24 Agreed
    8 Disagreed
    1. Jon Idea Submitter

      I would argue that we should first raise it and then peg it to inflation/CPI.

      10 months ago
      2 Agreed
      3 Disagreed
    2. The problem is not so much the wage (which does need to be increased) but the lack of hours. I'm pretty sure people would rather earn $11/hour for a 30 hour week that $12+ for 3 hours

      10 months ago
      0 Agreed
      5 Disagreed
    3. RJT

      I would argue there is an additional factor to be taken into account.

      1. Inflation

      2. Consumer Price Index

      3. Percentage average Ontario income increase/decrease

      Minimum wage needs to be calculated according to how average wages are changing. Inflation and CFI alone could see minimum wage fall behind 'real' wages of average Ontarian. That would see minimum wages fall in real terms.

      10 months ago
      2 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
      1. Agree with the idea in general, but 1 & 2 are the same thing. I'd say just stick to GDP per capita or median GDP instead - that way fluctuations in prosperity and nominal prices are both accounted for.

        10 months ago
    4. You mean the same way everyone else's wages go up with inflation? Or should that only apply to people at the bottom? BS!

      Minimum skill = minimum pay, fast food workers are going to push themselves into being automated.

      10 months ago
      0 Agreed
      2 Disagreed
  3. The minimum wage has been shown to be ineffective at improving worker quality of life. I think its time to look at other solutions such as minimum income, or an income suppliment.

    http://commonground.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Pilot-a-Basic-Income-Supplement/13599-25935

    10 months ago
    5 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  4. Jon Idea Submitter

    Nick,

    In another comment, I also promote a guaranteed annual income as a preferred method of addressing income inequalities and improving the quality of life of Ontario citizens. This would most certainly be more effective, but will prove difficult to implement in the short term. That's why I support an increase in the minimum wage as a stop gap.

    10 months ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  5. william.bott Merged

    We need to raise the minimum wage to $11.00 immediately and then raise over the next three years by $0.40 to $0.50 per year until it reaches $12.50 and then tie it to inflation.

    10 months ago
    50 Agreed
    12 Disagreed
    1. I support this, as it couples with my idea to index minimum wage to inflation.

      I'd argue though that we are better off to increase it to 11 right away, but target 12.50 just prior to the next election, to give businesses more time to adjust.

      10 months ago
      1 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    2. I agree, but I don't think $11/$12.50 goes far enough. Minimum wage should be a living wage, which means anything below $14/hr is not enough. It should not be more financially responsible for a single mom to collect social assistance instead of working full-time at a minimum wage job and paying for subsidized daycare, yet at the moment, this is the reality. People want to work, we shouldn't be putting them in the position of having to accept welfare when there are jobs out there and they would prefer to be at them.

      10 months ago
      5 Agreed
      1 Disagreed
      1. I agree that it needs to be higher than the $11.00 to $12.50 range I suggested. We need to be cautious that we do not raise it too high too fast. What I am suggesting is for the next three years. Then we could look at it again and maybe do another $0.50 per year raise in the next three years, as we did when we raised it to $10.25 per hour. One of the biggest issues in my community is high rents. We should look at rent controls.

        10 months ago
    3. Moderator

      Hello folks!

      This may be of interest to some! The government launched a panel on how to raise the minimum wage! It may be helpful to do some research on what other regions have done on minimum wage in other provinces or countries as well.

      http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/jobs/ontario-strikes-new-panel-on-how-to-raise-minimum-wage/article13291398/

      10 months ago
      3 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
  6. I would also like to see a way of linking minimum wage and CEO salaries, or capping the ratio between CEO and worker pay.

    10 months ago
    3 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
  7. If wages go up , prices go up for aged or poor , as well as profit take , BUT hours of work most often go down So, lets demand that more of that HUGE profit take go back to workers and get them off of costly social programs. I am tired of supporting profit take with sneaky low paying work jobs of very profitable firms !

    10 months ago
    1 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
  8. Would you be speaking of Walmart and Target? The increase if any in price would be miniscule. But you are right that hours would be cut but the workload wouldn't be. Minimum wage increases are but treating a symptom, not the disease.

    10 months ago
    0 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
  9. Raising minimum wage will hurt many small businesses and ultimately fuel inflation.

    10 months ago
    2 Agreed
    3 Disagreed
  10. Jon Idea Submitter

    jr pelland,

    Failing to raise minimum wages also hurts small business since no one has any income to spend in their businesses anymore.

    10 months ago
    2 Agreed
    3 Disagreed
    1. Actually, big business love all this minimum wage chatter.

      Walmart, Tim Hortons and McD's can all easily afford higher wages. The financial statements are clear.

      The reason they love it is small companies that are staring up or growing are really hurt by the wage costs. Try opening a department store and compete against Walmart's logistics and buying power - uphill battle. Higher minimum wages mean Walmart can price competition right out of the market.

      No new competition means more profit.

      Most small operations of all stripes often have one competitive advantage - they try and break into the market based on price.

      We've seen it in Ontario in the beer market. Until the government crushed that idea by raising minimum prices. Guess what - who did that help. The big multinationals. The buck-a-beer Laker guys faded away.

      Minimum wages hurt small business far more than the big guys.

      Don't fall into their trap.

      10 months ago
      1 Agreed
      2 Disagreed
  11. I would want to study the facts long and hard. Take a look around at other provinces, other counties and tie it all together per capita. I think most will find we're not too bad. Remember, the money has to come from somewhere...usually the taxpayer. "Socialism is a great system,until you run out of other peoples money!"(Pres. R.Reagan)

    10 months ago
    0 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
    1. Thatcher's quote.

      10 months ago
      0 Agreed
      1 Disagreed
  12. Jon Idea Submitter

    wyberyl,

    You call minimum wage laws socialism? Even Reagan supported a minimum wage. And if we didn't manipulate supply and demand in the country through immigration and other means, then wages would be much higher than the minimum wage many of us are calling for.

    10 months ago
    0 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
  13. I agreed with this idea, but as I have said for public servants and politicians, increases should be indexed to the median change in Ontario income, not inflation.

    10 months ago
    0 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
  14. I agree to raise the minimun wage, but I think the minimum wage should be $15.00/hr. 11 to 12 is the going starting rate for most companies now, It is time to raise the bar.

    10 months ago
    2 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
    1. Then I want my wage increased by 50% for doing nothing.

      10 months ago
      1 Agreed
      2 Disagreed
    2. O Great and Wise Kevin. Please enlighten us as to why you have chosen $15. Tea Leaves? The Stars?

      Please enlighten us O Wise One as to the source of your wisdom.

      Do you think the entire province - an area larger than most countries - should all have the same minimum? The vast array of different jobs in different industries across this great land - are they all to share in your vision of $15? Just tell us and we will do your bidding.

      I can buy a 3 bedroom house in Chatham for under $27,000. Can I buy a parking space in downtown Toronto for that?

      Yet, you the Anointed One, know the answer. You have dictated, from on high, that the wage must be $15.

      We thank you for your wisdom our exalted leader.

      10 months ago
      1 Agreed
      3 Disagreed
  15. Jon Idea Submitter

    ibfell, the median wage is going down due to the erosion of the middle class, so your strategy would probably end up lowering the minimum wage. Kevin, I have no problem with a higher minimum wage, I was just keeping my expectations low in the hopes that some progress could be made on raising the minimum wage.

    10 months ago
    1 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
  16. It was tough to pick, there are separate motions to raise it to 12, 14 and even 20 an hour here. It may have been better for everyone to support raising it to a "living" wage, amount to be determined. As for changes in the "median wage index" it goes up yearly, just not as much as inflation due to increasing resource scarcity. In another words, as things like energy costs rise, the median standard of living will fall. It would be economically impossible to give everyone a CPI based increase, so I have been pushing in this forum for median income to replace the CPI as a standard for rich and poor alike. The indexing of minimum wage to the CPI would be fine so long as we recognize that this is intended to improve the lives of the poor relative to society as we go forward from the initial increase and not to simply maintain the status quo.

    10 months ago
    1 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
  17. Jon Idea Submitter

    lbfell,

    Thanks for your comments. I do agree that it is probably more effective for us to promote a living wage as opposed to setting a target wage. Also, interesting comments on your advocacy of a median wage index. I'll have to do more research into this as clearly I misunderstood.

    10 months ago
    0 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
  18. Why stop at $12...why not $20 an hour? Let's make employers pay so damn much that they have to fire half their staff, cut hours, and ensure they'll never hire another inexperienced student. Or...let's let supply and demand determine wages as we should.

    Why do you think jobs like grocery store clerks and bank clerks are disappearing in favour of machines, and full service gas stations don't exist anymore? MINIMUM WAGE!! Those jobs aren't worth $10.25/hour or whatever min. wage currently is so they disappear, and workers are being replaced by machines all over the place.

    If you want more unemployment (especially teens and inexperienced people) then go ahead an raise minimum wage. It only helps people currently with jobs (assuming they don't get canned for cost saving), not people looking for jobs.

    10 months ago
    2 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
    1. I think ATMs, self-serve and self-checkout machines have had a detrimental effect on the employment situation as well. There is little incentive to hire with higher minimum wages.

      9 months ago
      0 Agreed
      1 Disagreed
  19. Minimum wage jobs are for students and seniors not for supporting a family.

    10 months ago
    1 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
  20. Jon Idea Submitter

    Brendan,

    Sadly, minimum wage jobs are frequently all that is available for people to support their family.

    10 months ago
    1 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
    1. tw

      So maybe the baby boomers should have saved some of their money so they could retire and allow the new generation (of the highest educated population to ever live) be able to get a real job and support their fledgling families.

      10 months ago
      1 Agreed
      1 Disagreed
  21. Jon Idea Submitter

    tw,

    Demographics do appear to be causing a lot of today's problems. The boomers refuse to retire, and even when they do, their jobs are phased out. Then they elect Conservative governments that promote austerity measures, low wages, and small government, you know, now that they don't need to worry about getting a job. If the boomers would just commit to giving us the same opportunities they had when raising a family and would be willing to make some sacrifices to ensure this, Canada could become a great country again. Sadly, I don't see this happening.

    10 months ago
    1 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  22. Anyone working 40hrs a week should be able to support themselves in the country. At $10/hr, the minimum wage, that is $19200 with no time off. There is no way that we Canadians should allow this to happen, where those willing to work, and who are providing a service, should be living in poverty. Lets get with it and riase the wage to $15/hr min.

    10 months ago
    2 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
  23. $12. is not enough. No one should work full time and still be living in poverty, and yet any rate under $14 has exactly that result for a single person. Raise it to $14 and tie it to inflation.

    10 months ago
    2 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
  24. At $12 an hour, this equates to an annual gross income of $25,000. At that income level, no bank will lend you money to buy a house. So, forget buying a house. For a one bedroom apartment, in Ottawa, the average rent is around $15,000 a year. That leaves $10,000 a year to pay for for food, transportation, income tax, clothing, personal essentials...Now people in that salary range are often working night shifts for employers who only allow minimum vacation time. No money for entertainment. If you are a single parent with a child, forget sports, school supplies etc. What is wrong with this picture?

    10 months ago
    2 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
    1. Jon Idea Submitter

      Don't get me wrong, I think it needs to be higher...I was just trying to propose an achievable goal.

      10 months ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
  25. Raising the minimum wage does not address cost of living issues. If we focus on fixing those, like food and energy costs, that helps the elderly, the unemployed, at-home parents, and the working poor all at the same time.

    It is also worth noting that the effective minimum wage, from an export business perspective, has gone up another 20% since 2008 due to the spike in the value of the Canadian Dollar. We need to get back to a 90 US-cent dollar before we can safely raise the minimum wage without forcing small exporters out of business and seeing more larger firms to move jobs out of the province.

    9 months ago
    0 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
    1. Jon Idea Submitter

      Terence,

      I don't think anyone is treating a raise in minimum wages as a one-step solution to cost of living issues. Note, I also recommend tying future raises in the minimum wage to inflation and cost of living indexes. In another post, I recommend that we also support a guaranteed annual income which would address issues concerning the elderly, unemployed, stay-at-home parents etc. As for your concern with our export market, I would respond that we place too much emphasis on exports and not enough on domestic consumption. And domestic consumption can only be improved by improving the standards of Canadians at home.

      9 months ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
  26. I say look at the big picture first which includes sales taxes, income taxes, and social assistance. Having a guaranteed minimum income program might be a better way to help. I think with the current system a person living below the poverty line has to pay income tax while a millionaire can buy food and clothes tax free. How about a basic personal income tax exemption of $30,000, a 10% sales tax on everything including food and rent, and if a person makes less than specific amount per month (eg $1500 as a single adult) then they would get a subsidy. All the assistance programs such as CPP, OAS, disability, EI, and social assistance could be combined and save administration costs with the minimum income program. Obviously study would be needed but something to look at first

    8 months ago
    1 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
    1. Jon Idea Submitter

      earth,

      Many of us supporting a raise in minimum wage are also huge supporters of a Guaranteed Annual Income. See one of my other posts. Think of raising the minimum wage as a feasible stop-gap measure.

      8 months ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed