I agree to Idea Retiring as an Educator Means Being Retired
Voting Disabled

497 votes

I disagree to Idea Retiring as an Educator Means Being Retired

Rank10

Idea#31

This idea is active.
Education »

Retiring as an Educator Means Being Retired

Unemployment is way too high, and there are far too many new/young teachers in the group. Similarly, many Pension Plans (including the Teachers' Fund) are on an unsustainable path and will need to be modified through a combination of higher premiums, lower benefits, and/or higher retirement ages. To help with all of the above, retired teachers should not be offered; nor be allowed to accept any part-time position, full-time position, or contract position in any location funded by the Ministry of education.

Submitted by 1 year ago

Comments (66)

  1. Gord Drimmie Idea Submitter

    Although not a teacher, I too retired and have never accepted an offer to return for short-term/contract work (and I had numerous offers).

    1 year ago
    3 Agreed
    5 Disagreed
    1. Alright. I've given it a lot of thought, and if they enable the ability to change your vote, I will change mine to yes.

      1 year ago
      1 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    2. I've used the retract vote option to change my vote as noted.

      1 year ago
      1 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    3. Aren't you lucky that your life situation allowed you to retire without needing to work! That is not everyone's reality.

      1 year ago
      4 Agreed
      1 Disagreed
  2. I like the idea behind this - to open up more positions to younger teachers and save the government money - but I fear we'd be excluding qualified people from doing what they do best with such a blanket move.

    1 year ago
    7 Agreed
    5 Disagreed
    1. Gord Drimmie Idea Submitter

      Teddy - if a teacher wants to work, fine. he/she can work....and work...and work. And many of the good ones do. But if you WANT to retire and you do and you start taking your pension, you've made your choice. Why would we want to let those people collect their pension AND take another position thereby depriving the up and coming of an employment opportunity?

      1 year ago
      11 Agreed
      6 Disagreed
  3. Very simple - all qualified teachers either unemployed or retired and wanting to work, register on a data base - noting their status, availability, location preferences, speciality and type of work wanted (full or part-time). CVs could be attached. Schools must register to use the database - perhaps make it the only source for hiring. Schools can then search by their criteria i.e. Grade 10 chemistry teacher in Scarborough area for a 3 month full time assignment. Schools could only access the retired teacher list after exhausting the unemployed teacher list.

    1 year ago
    5 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
  4. Although I am not a teacher or a retired teacher, I know quite a few retired teachers who have very good pensions yet continue to do Supply Teaching. When a full time teacher is absent due to sickness or for some other reason, these retired teachers are called by the principal of the school involved and invited to work while the regular teacher is absent. This provides them a tidy extra income on top of a very adequate pension. In many boards of education, the decision of who to call is left at the discretion of the school's principal. Not surprisingly, many, many principals choose to call in their old retired work colleagues.

    This system is extremely unfair to the many recent graduates of teacher's college who are trying to establish a career. Those young teachers are being deprived of the chance to gain experience and prove themselves to a board of education. They are also being deprived of the chance to earn that income.

    Even worse, the various boards of education are missing a golden opportunity to see how well a young teacher performs, without the board having to make any long-term commitments.

    All these advantages to society of providing employment and experience to young people just starting out and of providing boards of education with a plentiful supply of enthusiastic new teachers are being sacrificed for the convenience of a group who have already had a chance at a full career, and who are finacially secure with good pensions. To any thinking person, this is manifestly unfair and it works against the long term interest of education in Ontario.

    A much more equitable system would be to take the hiring decision out of the hands of the local principals and have it administered by each board's Human Resources Department based on an transparent and equitable system.

    It is hard to understand why the Government of Ontario has not moved to address this issue as the present situation is so obviously disfunctional and the solution will not require any new spending.

    1 year ago
    8 Agreed
    4 Disagreed
    1. "very adequate pension" "very good pension" Who are you to judge the financial position of every teacher? You don't know their finances or the demands on their resources. This is just stereotyping = "the greedy teacher". For any number of reasons of which you are unaware, individuals may need more income than their pension provides. You are projecting your idea of a "very good" pension onto someone else of whose circumstances you are unaware.

      1 year ago
      18 Agreed
      4 Disagreed
    2. Zeeman, teachers do make a very fair wage and compared to most professions, a "very good pension". The issue is one of "double dipping" whereby retired teachers are allowed to be retired, yet still make as much as they did before this. While I understand that some teachers would like the extra income during retirement, the flip-side of this is that many are living outside of their means and should have planned for the inevitable retirement. If we are looking to save money, we cannot be spending it to pay both a 30+ year teacher wage on top of their pensions, it is just not sustainable.

      1 year ago
      2 Agreed
      6 Disagreed
  5. btg

    To simplistic... if the only qualified teacher is someone who is retired, why have rules stopping that person from filling a public need? A ban goes too far.

    1 year ago
    11 Agreed
    4 Disagreed
  6. Stop the double dipping,allow new teachers to enter system.When elementary and high school teachers retire they should not be able to be hired back as substitute teachers.

    Would allow young people to gain much needed experience and bring new ideas into school system

    1 year ago
    36 Agreed
    13 Disagreed
    1. Gord Drimmie Idea Submitter

      Go to Idea #31 - it covers this:

      1 year ago
      2 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    2. Gord Drimmie Idea Submitter

      Idea #31 is entitled: Retiring as an Educator Means Being Retired

      1 year ago
      2 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    3. Jon

      Exactly. When you retire, you're RETIRED!

      1 year ago
      2 Agreed
      1 Disagreed
  7. Principals are professionals and should be able to choose appropriate support for their schools: if that means choosing someone with experience to deal with a tough classroom or someone with fresh ideas to lighten up a dull one, they have been trained and hired to make these decisions. Leaving it up to the board creates a nightmare database infrastructure problem about how to assign priorities, calling systems, etc. that takes away from the point: teaching kids. The priority should be that (teaching kids), not employing fresh grad teachers for the sake of giving them a job.

    What we can do to address the retrieves double dipping problem is change the incentive structure: those who are retired/ collecting pension should receive a fraction of the daily rate. This gives the incentive to apply for part time roles only if they really need incremental dollars and if they have a true love for their job. School budgets should be charged the same regular daily rate regardless of who is chosen (to not cause a selection bias based on cost); and the excess dollars can go to some other budget line in the ministry of education to enhance student education or contribute to lowering taxes.

    1 year ago
    3 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
    1. Why should an experienced teacher be paid less to do the same job? Particularly when they may be called in to handle a difficult class or to fill in for a role which requires additional qualifications (special education, for example.) The "double-dipping" problem is handled through the taxation of that additional income and the penalties imposed by the pension plan for retirees who work more than 50 days per year.

      1 year ago
      2 Agreed
      1 Disagreed
  8. Gord Drimmie Idea Submitter

    "...For any number of reasons of which you are unaware, individuals may need more income than their pension provides." If the pension is inadequate, the individual should not have retired. And if the individual wants the pension AND a job....he/she should find a job outside the school system where new teachers are crying for jobs and renewal is needed. And don't tell me that Teachers' pensions are not "very good"....they are, in fact, at levels that most people can only dream about. And indexed to boot...

    1 year ago
    4 Agreed
    6 Disagreed
    1. Not all teachers retire with great pensions - the pay out is based on years actually worked. In a female dominated profession, many have taken off years to be at home with children or worked part time. This detracts from the amount one earns in retirement. As well, we all have different financial realities. At retirement age some still have mortgages and/or children in school, or elderly parents requiring support.

      If my projected pension is not enough to meet my needs, and I am not allowed to supply teach, then I would have no choice but to continue working full-time. Is this good for the new teachers? I think they would prefer the fulltime job over the maximum 50 supply days a retired teacher can work. Is it good for students? At retirement age, I may have the energy and expertise to do 4 or 5 days per month to supplement my pension but I may not have the energy to work 5 days a week.

      1 year ago
      2 Agreed
      1 Disagreed
  9. Banning retired teachers from picking up supply or LTO work isn't necessarily going to open up those jobs for younger teachers. In fact, it may well have the opposite effect. The longer you work, the better your pension. If a teacher knows he or she can pick up 50 days work to supplement his pension, this may make retirement feasible. If not, then more teachers are going to consider working another year or two or more, preventing those jobs from opening up. Allowing teachers to work part-time gives one's retirement decisions some flexibility and encourages them to go earlier, thus opening up more jobs. And what about areas like mine, which has a severe shortage of supply teachers and sometimes can't get enough, retired or not, and has to put classes into the library or cafeteria where they can be supervised. Policies which seem good for the GTA don't work for everybody. It's a big province.

    1 year ago
    14 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
  10. I agree that teachers should not be allowed to teach after retiring but they should still be allowed to seek work through the ministry and school board in non-teaching positions.

    1 year ago
    4 Agreed
    9 Disagreed
  11. It is morally wrong for retired teachers to be employed in teaching when there are hundreds and hundreds of new, well educated young people ready for a teaching position. The Premier is very anxious to see an increase in employment for young people and rightly so. That being the case, it is dreadful that the Government is paying a retired Teacher $250.00 per day, when a young, qualified teacher is unemployed and kept waiting sometimes for a few years before being allowed to work.

    1 year ago
    6 Agreed
    6 Disagreed
  12. Gord Drimmie Idea Submitter

    Yes, the Premier is "interested"....but she refuses to correct this inequity; she will not reinstate Slots @ Racetracks Program (McGuinty's cancellation of the Program cost 25-50,000 jobs!); so rally how "interested" is she in solving the unemployment issue???

    1 year ago
    2 Agreed
    3 Disagreed
    1. EXCELLENT!!! why were these areas shut down by Mr McGuinty and company.. Look how much he has cost the province with some of his very bad moves.. lets reestablish these areas of entertainment and open up employment for these 25,000-50,000 persons. Sounds like a no-brainer to the average person.. what happens when they become politicians??

      1 year ago
      2 Agreed
      2 Disagreed
  13. An additional problem is the number of student spots at teachers colleges. Despite the shortage of teaching positions, the ontario gvt continues to allow more students to enter teachers' colleges than the available teaching positions, leading to pretty guaranteed unemployment for some teachers.

    The gvt needs to decrease the entrance spots at teachers colleges until the imbalance is corrected.

    1 year ago
    6 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
    1. These young teachers entered the faculty knowing full well what the job market has been like for many years now. I feel badly for them but they ought to have know what they were getting into. It has not been kept secret. As long as the universities can make money, they will continue to offer the program. If Ontario universities change their ways, plenty of US ones will come in an take the money!

      11 months ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
  14. An alternative to a total ban is to set a max # of hours per quarter or semester for retired teachers.

    1 year ago
    4 Agreed
    3 Disagreed
    1. Retired teachers are only allowed to teach 50 days per school year.

      1 year ago
      2 Agreed
      2 Disagreed
  15. There are many pros and cons for retired teachers staying retired.

    (side note) I think it would really help the system if there was a 30 year maximum teaching rule. Stipulations could be made for single parents putting kids through University.

    I feel some of the pros are

    -obviously people who are young and want to get a career in their field would have more opportunity to do so, but can't because more retired teachers continue to work longer and come back after retirement.

    -New teachers will get more work experience which will enable them to become better teachers.

    -New teachers are often familiar with current media resources as well they are technologically sufficient; which enables students to reach maximum potential using the tools of future employment, creating more opportunities.

    -New teachers will help the economy by setting down roots, buying homes, having families, and building a better community by volunteering at the school they are hired at.--They can't do this with out jobs...

    -If a retired teacher comes back to teach they continue to get paid at a high wage and make volunteer opportunities out of the question. Many retired teachers could support the system so well with volunteering in new teacher classrooms. It is a shame that there is not a volunteer type program for retired teachers.

    A Con which has come out of teachers staying on after retirement is that

    -Ontario B.ED students will now be required to take 2 years of teachers training, incurring more debt from school. Now they have double the debt and there are still not enough jobs because many teachers don't retire after 30 years of work.This 2 year training was to supposedly lower the amount of teachers entering the work force. But it will be staggered graduation years anyway, so still the same amount of teachers graduating but with more debt and still no jobs.

    Cons

    -Taking retired teachers out of the system can take that great resource of knowledge away from the co-workers and staff. If they are supplying they can be a wealth of information.

    -It provides the current teacher with a certain peace of mind that allows them to leave their classroom with a seasoned teacher.

    -Schools are happy to see familiar faces, retired teachers provide that safety.

    This is a touchy subject, many retired teachers feel it is their right to continue teaching after they leave. I know that in other skilled trades this happens often, with specialist doing contracts after retirement.

    All in all I have to say I have been teaching for 10 years now with out successfully obtaining gainful employment in the profession of my choice. And well I put my love of teaching students first, I am still struggling to make ends meet living month to month as an occasional teacher. There has to be some movement at some point.

    It would be nice to see retirement incentives. For people to retire when they are eligible. To make room for new teachers.

    1 year ago
    4 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
    1. Katie,

      Very well stated.. I was fortunate to teach in a job that I loved for 32 years..but retired early.. freedom 55.. I guess we should be better planners and try to live within our means in order that you can retire and remain retired.. With increasing the time for young teachers to 2 years..perhaps the second year should be an internship year whereby they are placed within a school, working with a mentor who perhaps is on the threshold of retiring. Retired means retired.. Get out and stay out.. give these young people who are more likely very technologically advanced than the current teacher who may have no/or little interest in becoming technologically advanced an opportunity for advancement and procuring a job that they desperately want. There are many different ways for a retired teacher to earn an income other than supply teaching.. think about it!!.. ever hear of TUTORING??

      1 year ago
      6 Agreed
      4 Disagreed
  16. Retiress would simply claim discrimination under The Charter of Rights and Freedoms along with Human Rights Codes. It is unfortunate that many young people have chosen to enter a professions where supply far exceeds demand. Sorry, but no one owes you a job just because you went to school.

    1 year ago
    6 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
  17. As someone who is trying (very hard) to get back into teaching, having retired teachers who are "not really retired" taking most of the supply and even LTO contracts is really not fair. I don't understand why a teacher retires only to come back int the fall to supply teach. I agree with a poster above who says that once you start taking from your pension (which is currently pretty nice), then that's it. If you retire, but do NOT draw from your pension, then clearly you intend to keep working. Other stipulations could be made so that those wanting to retire but still work must be at the BOTTOM of call lists, not at the top, that they can take an LTO but share it 50/50 with a newer grad. I also think the cuts to ALL teaching programs for now - is a smart one, as we are producing too many teachers where there are not enough jobs. And if the government wants to send someone up North, they better make the offer pretty attractive. I'd do it for a year, provided my rent here was paid so that I'd have a place to come home to, and perhaps a guarantee on at least a short list for supply work. Really, so many things to think about. I hope this idea takes flight...

    1 year ago
    4 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
  18. I think it is extremely selfish of retired teachers earning a good income when there are many recent grads from the Faculty of Education barely scraping by.

    1 year ago
    3 Agreed
    4 Disagreed
    1. Survival of the fittest.

      1 year ago
      0 Agreed
      2 Disagreed
    2. You assume all retired teachers are making a good income. You might be surprised to learn that this is not always the case. Teachers who took time off during their career or who have children still in school may not earn enough to make ends meet.

      11 months ago
      1 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
  19. Moderator

    Gord refers to the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan being on an "unsustainable path." For those interested in learning more about the funding of the OTPP, good information is available at the OTPP web site: http://www.otpp.com/corporate/plan-funding

    1 year ago
    2 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  20. If you've ever taught, you'd know that burnout is common. A lot of teachers are tired and take early retirement. But they still like to supply teach (for many reasons, financial, social...) There is less pressure and not preparation work and can be just a day or two a week. I don't have a problem with this. But no, I don't think they should be offered contracts. This is no different than working full time.

    1 year ago
    2 Agreed
    4 Disagreed
  21. I would like to see the teachers colleges put a stop to teaching courses for a few years. Students are being sucked into taking up a profession where jobs are so over crowded with good teachers who end up in a field that is beneath them, after trying for years to get into a school they are forced to do medico jobs out of frustration or to make money to make a living to pay bills. It costs a lot of money for these students to learn a trade that wont allow them a position, unless you happen to have a in with someone already in the system. Most students go into this line of work because they believe they can make a difference only to find out they will never be able to use the trade they chose

    1 year ago
    0 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
  22. You people who are against teachers retiring, and then coming back to supply or do long term occasionals, might change your mind when you see the poorly trained, new, younger teachers that we see coming out of teacher's college. You would be ever-so-happy to have an experienced professional standing and teaching at the front of your son or daughter's class. Just because they are younger does not make them better. Be careful what you wish for.

    1 year ago
    2 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
    1. Gord Drimmie Idea Submitter

      And how are these "poorly trained, new, younger teachers" supposed to become "experienced professionals"? With the surplus teachers we have being unable to find jobs, it is unforgivable that we let the good ol' boys continue to double-dip at their expense.

      1 year ago
      1 Agreed
      1 Disagreed
    2. From my experience observing student-teachers, they seem perform well in their classrooms.

      While new teachers can be very good, it does take several years before teachers become proficient.

      1 year ago
      2 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    3. Hey Gord, There are too many university grads that go into teaching because they cant think of anything else to do. If you planned on a career as a teacher you KNOW it going to take up to 10 years to get a contract position. Eliminating retired teachers from occasional work does 0 to help them. You sound like a tea party troll.

      1 year ago
      0 Agreed
      2 Disagreed
    4. I think there is a lot of ageism here, younger does not mean better or more technologically savvy. Nor does older mean out of touch and lacking in creativity.

      1 year ago
      3 Agreed
      1 Disagreed
  23. When a teacher retires they open up a full time permanent position for new and upcoming teachers. If they make that decision yet aren't ready to completely leave teaching I believe it is a win win for the retired teacher to supply a few days (if they choose or need to) and a new teacher to enter the full-time permanent position. I'm sure if you asked many new teachers they would prefer a permanent position over supply work.

    1 year ago
    6 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
    1. Gord Drimmie Idea Submitter

      Your post states the problem.....when a teacher RETIRES but isn't ready to make that decsion yet and completely leave teaching! What? If he/she is not ready to make that decision yet, don't make it! If you want to retire and collect your pension....go for it. But you can't have both. Not reasonable; not required; and not fair. Only in the fairytale world of the public sector.

      1 year ago
      1 Agreed
      3 Disagreed
  24. I have worked in a school for 12 years and a retired teacher has been in supplying on and off for most of those 12 years. Bloody unbelievable!

    1 year ago
    2 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
  25. Really when I retire I will not have a mortgage and will have a tax free income of $3500 a month that will be more then enough. Let the younger teacher have te work and stop double dipping!

    1 year ago
    2 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
    1. Gord, it is actually a private sector reality that retirees are frequently brought back for contract positions. It is extremely common because in the private sector they recognize the expertise and information base that is held by their most experienced employees. They value the time and training they have invested in these employees while recognizing that they may not have the energy to maintain a full work load. They allow them to transition into full retirement through part-time contracts. The difference may be that they are drawing from company supported RRSP plans and severance or bonus packages rather than a pension plan. Its really just semantics.

      11 months ago
      1 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
  26. I think many people commenting are missing the boat - first of all, "double dipping" is a terrible misnomer. Through their careers, teachers contributed towards their pensions, the contributions and terms of retirement negotiated through their union and the employer. In other words, they paid into their pension, they are entitled to collect it. If they meet the terms for "retirement", they are meeting the terms to collect said pension. If they choose to continue to work in their field after retirement, be it part time or full time, we are NOT paying more as taxpayers (do your math properly, people!!!) - put simply, if school X's English teacher retires, the board needs to pay that pension AND pay for a teacher to fill the position. We don't pay more if that salary goes to a retired teacher. The suggestion I read to pay pensioned teachers less is just obscene - you want to pay them less to do the same work as a younger teacher (and penalize them because they are collecting a pension they paid into)??? In most (if not all) jobs, pay is generally HIGHER for significant experience related to the job.

    Those who are making it out to be an exclusive club for retired "friends" of the principal, it is actually the teacher who calls in their supply when they're sick, and if I were a teacher, I'd want to call in someone who I knew could handle the class, and I could rest assured will get through the planned lesson instead of putting me behind.

    If there are so many unemployed young teachers, perhaps we need to admit less students into teacher's college until we have a greater need, and/or perhaps people educated to be teachers who cannot find a job should consider a different career.

    1 year ago
    6 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
    1. Most Boards actually have a computerized dispatch system. Neither the principal nor the teacher gets to select who gets the job. Jobs are matched to supply teachers based on qualifications, preferred work locations, and sometimes according to seniority on the supply list ( a newly retired teacher would be at the bottom of that list since their seniority is not with the Occasional teachers union.) And, for the record, a qualified teacher gets paid the same wage for a day's work regardless of years of experience. So retirees who are doing daily supply to not cost the Board more.

      11 months ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
  27. Although it may make some kind of sense practically or financially, I think the whole idea of restricting or eliminating seniors or retired people from the work force ---- setting older seasoned people and their knowledge on the shelf --- is one of our major flaws socially and culturally.

    This is the way people think and reason if they can only understand or consider money and numbers. There is a much bigger picture.

    1 year ago
    1 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
    1. Gord Drimmie Idea Submitter

      This isn't about ALL seniors and retired people. It's about retired TEACHERS who retire with a pension plan far more lucrative than most can even dream about; with a pension fund with a huge unfunded liability that will have to be made up one way or the other with some help from we, the taxpayers; with something on the order of 15 teachers collecting a pension for every one still active; and with a huge number of young teachers unable to find positions. A myriad of problems.....and you think it is just fine that someone voluntarily decides to retire and collect a pension; and then wants to return to work on a contract, part-time, or sometimes full-time position? That is simply unreasonable and unfair to those looking for work.

      1 year ago
      2 Agreed
      2 Disagreed
    2. Gord that is a straight out LIE. An earlier poster put up a link about how the pension is funded and you are way off the mark. I think you are confusing American anti union propaganda for Canadian reality. The teachers pension fund is one of the largest most stable players in the Canadian market. It makes money. Its in the US that governments have been underfunding and raiding pensions thay they are a liability or potentially so. PLEASE educate your self before commenting.

      1 year ago
      4 Agreed
      1 Disagreed
  28. Why not just get to the brunt of the problem and stop so many kids from pursuing jobs as teachers when there is already an overflow? Teacher's College should be more limited in the number of applicants they can select per year. Every year in Ontario colleges churn out approximately 50% more teachers than there are jobs. If the student's knew this going in they could be tempted to join other professional career streams.

    1 year ago
    3 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
  29. Gord Drimmie Idea Submitter

    pete222...What is an outright lie? The Teachers' Pension Fund has an increasing unfunded liability because there are way too many teachers retired compared with the number of teachers contributing. It is unsustainable at the current contribution/benefit rates. I AM educated regarding this subject....and the only thing that will ring long-term sustainablility is a modest decrease in benefits (including higher retirement ages); a higher rate of contributions (yes, I know, contributions may seem high already); and an increase in market returns.

    1 year ago
    0 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
    1. Gord, technically you are correct but you need to undestand that the unfunded liability only exists on paper because OTPP can only use the 30 yr Bond rate to predict the rate of return on investment. Since that rate is the lowest it has been in decades the rate of return used to value the OTPP is way, way lower than their actual rate of return. If you know anything about the teacher's pension plan you know they make very sound investments and their actual rate of return is one that most investors can only dream about. Read all the fine print on the pension before you make these statements.

      11 months ago
      1 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
  30. Gord Drimmie Idea Submitter

    pete2222.....re this: Eliminating retired teachers from occasional work does 0 to help them.

    Obviously, you have no understanding of unemplyment; supply and demand; or any of the other basics. What are you - a retired teacher double-dipping the system???

    Suggesting that preventing retired teachers from working has zero effect is like saying that rain doesn't matter, it will still be dry. What a naieve comment. With a plurality of 367 votes on this subject, you obviously haven't done your homework. Better start now...

    1 year ago
    1 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
  31. Pete,

    I think you made a very cogent point about "anti-union propaganda versus Canadian reality". But I think you were a bit harsh to accuse someone of telling an outright lie. People can be honestly mistaken or make a different interpertation of the facts. I think what makes this discussion worthwhile is the chance to learn from the views of others.

    1 year ago
    1 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  32. Isn't it besides the point, irrelevant whether the teacher's pension fund is solvent or not.

    1 year ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  33. Remember though that for each retiring teacher, a load of experience goes away.

    1 year ago
    1 Agreed
    2 Disagreed
  34. I'm not sure I have much to contribute beyond the current dialogue, but the key point here is that this is too simplistic. You can't assess the financial standing of every single teacher to be able to prohibit every one of them from working past retirement. While they may have a pension, what if they are a single income living in Toronto? With a continued mortgage? What if their partner has no pension? Or they have dependents? What if they're just terrible money managers? Or went bankrupt? Or had kids later in life who are now entering a radically overpriced university/college system? One pension alone may not be enough to support an couple/family. And that's the reason why this proposal is a dumb one. AS ITS WRITTEN.

    Now you could propose something like limiting the amount of work they can do, or the types of work they can do. For instance, you could prohibit retired teachers from accessing contracts and LTOs. And/or you could propose limiting them to a certain number of supply days in a month or year. But an outright ban on their ability to generate more money is impossible and I agree that it likely violates some fundamental rights.

    1 year ago
    2 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
    1. This is such a great idea that it has already been done! Retired teachers are limited to 50 days/year in any publically funded school system (including university). Working over that results in financial penalties. Since LTO contracts are generally longer than 50 days, retired teachers are not eligible.

      1 year ago
      4 Agreed
      1 Disagreed
    2. Teachers are already limited to 50 days per year but with pressure from all of these younger teachers, many Boards are making it difficult for retirees to get on this list. The result is that they are not retiring. So, younger teachers, you will wait longer.

      11 months ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
  35. To be fair, it is not a few retired teachers continuing to supply teach (for 50 days or less) that is stopping new teachers from finding positions. It is a very tight market for teachers entering the profession because of province-wide declining student populations. This is not a problem that has crept up on us. It could be easily foreseen. The major problem here is that Ontario teacher training programs continue to crank out new teachers in the same numbers as always (probably because it makes money for universities). I like that the Liberal government has taken recent steps to rectify the true problem here by restricting the numbers of students entering education programs and extending the length of teacher training to two years. The solution proposed here of putting in place a blanket ban on retired teachers supply teaching is over-simplistic. As has been stated before, we can not possible know all of the varied reasons why these teachers continue to work.

    1 year ago
    2 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
  36. I think what needs to be defined here is "retirement". If a teacher retires from their profession, no more work and they collect a pension. However, what about introduce a middle class of teacher. Allow teachers to go from full-time to occasional, draw from their pensions, but the money they earn acts like an EI claim. If they earn too much, their pension payment is reduced during the same time period (or the next period from an accounting perspective).

    11 months ago
    0 Agreed
    1 Disagreed
    1. Great idea - already done. When a teacher exceeds 50 days in a year, their pension is affected.

      11 months ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed

Vote Activity Show

(latest 20 votes)

Events Show